Week 42: Intercultural Bridges – Nancy Bravo Identity, and Adaptation

00:00:00: Welcome to another edition of PLUS-FORTY-NINE!

00:00:06: My name is Irida Arteaga and here we are, middle of October.

00:00:11: It's crazy how fast this year went and I'm probably not alone here saying that there's been so much things happening around us that on some levels it is okay that the year is ending.

00:00:25: On the other side it's kind of like where did summer go?

00:00:29: Or where did the year go?

00:00:32: But I'm really hoping that everybody is fine and that you're having time to unwind a little bit, taking in consideration this moment of the year where we can slow down.

00:00:47: invite to reflect.

00:00:49: It's a time to take stock, to notice the quiet changes around us and to think about how we can connect, how we can communicate and growth in the spaces we share.

00:01:01: And today our guest is Nancy Bravo.

00:01:04: She is an intercultural communicator whose work is all about understanding communication and culture.

00:01:11: So we have a great conversation about how to better integrate in Germany and of course the challenges that we face every day.

00:01:20: We hope you like this and let's find a cozy spot, take a breath and let's begin.

00:01:26: We start today with a look at some key developments shaping Germany's political and social landscape.

00:01:33: First, the federal government has introduced the new work and stay visa.

00:01:38: This is a measure designed to make it easier for skilled workers to enter Germany, start working and eventually settle here.

00:01:47: It's part of a broader strategy to simplify the entry procedures, strengthen the labor market and make the country more attractive for global talent, especially in industries struggling to fill positions.

00:02:01: Sadly, nothing about bureaucracy is being talked about, but hopefully at some point they will.

00:02:08: On the topic of digital rights, Germany has taken a firm stance against the EU controversial chat control proposal, which would have required messaging platforms to scan user contents in the name of child protection.

00:02:24: Berlin officially blocked this measure, arguing it violates constitutional guarantees of privacy and data protection.

00:02:32: The decision has been widely welcomed by digital rights advocates who see it as a crucial defense on personal freedom in the online sphere.

00:02:43: And finally, as the country moves deeper into autumn, the government's latest economic outlook shows continuous and cautious optimism.

00:02:53: Inflation continues to slow down.

00:02:55: employment remains steady and while some sectors are still feeling the global pressure, Germany's focus is shifting towards long-term stability, balancing innovation with social cohesion.

00:03:09: We already talked a little bit about slowing down and now if we take a look into the culture, there is something that feels particularly German this time of the year.

00:03:20: The quiet beauty of Habsruhe.

00:03:25: This is autumn calm.

00:03:27: It is not an official holiday or tradition, but rather a way of being that is woven into the rhythm of life here.

00:03:35: After the long social months of summer, Autumn in Germany brings a noticeable shift towards introspection, slower weekends and small rituals that make shorter days feel comfortable and a little bit cold also.

00:03:51: But you will see it in the cafes filled with candle lights and the families taking long walks through the woods to admire the changing leaves.

00:04:00: And in the return of the warmth, hearty meals like pumpkin soup, I love pumpkin soup, and fiederweisen with onion tart.

00:04:10: Even language reflects this mood.

00:04:12: Words like gemütlichkeit and einkehr capture that cozy inwards turn, not only in the physical comfort but also on emotional grounding.

00:04:23: Culturally, this season reminds us of something deeply rooted in German life.

00:04:28: Balance.

00:04:29: This is definitely not something that happens in Latin America since you always have sun outside, so maybe it's not such a bad thing to just slow down and balance yourself.

00:04:41: Just as the year tilts from light to darkness, people here tend to slow down, reflect and prepare quietly for the months ahead.

00:04:51: It is not melancholy, it is a mindful kind of acceptance.

00:04:55: So maybe Herbstruhe is something worth learning from, an invitation to pause, notice the small moments and find calm and transition.

00:05:04: Before we close, let's take a look at what's happening around Hanover this week, and there's plenty to enjoy as Adam unfolds.

00:05:12: From October seventeenth to the eighteenth, the Kids Culture Festival returns to the Kulturzentrum Frauts, bringing together music, art, and local community under one lively roof.

00:05:26: It is one of those events where the city feels small in the best possible way.

00:05:31: with open-air stages in the bands, workshops, and food stalls that turn Linden into a creative hop for a few days.

00:05:40: Whether you're there for the live concerts or just to feel the pulse of the neighborhood, Keats Culture is all about connection, celebrating the people and stories that make Hanover tick.

00:05:51: And if you're in the mood of something a little bit more quiet, take a walk through the Herrenhausengaden.

00:05:59: The colors are at the peak right now, and it's one of the most beautiful spots in the city to slow down, breathe and watch the season change.

00:06:09: And for those who love exploring ideas, the Esprengel Museum continues its vibrant exhibition, Niki Kusama Murakami.

00:06:18: Love you for infinity.

00:06:19: It is an explosion of color and imagination that blends playfulness with depth, exactly what we need as the days grow shorter.

00:06:28: And that's it for this week's episode of Plus Forty-Nine.

00:06:32: Talking with Nancy Bravo reminds me that communication isn't sometimes not about words, it's also about intention, tone and the quiet work of listening.

00:06:42: So you're here in a new culture, we're all here in a new culture, in a new job or maybe we're just simply in a new season.

00:06:49: Understanding each other is what makes the difference between just living somewhere and truly belonging.

00:06:56: As always, thank you so much for being here with us today.

00:07:00: If you enjoy this conversation, tell a friend, leave us a note or simply take a moment this week to start a meaningful conversation of your own.

00:07:08: Maybe at a café, maybe at your local stammtisch.

00:07:13: Until next time, take care of yourselves, stay curious and enjoy the small moments that make October so beautiful and reflective.

00:07:20: Hasta la próxima!

00:07:22: Why do Germans love planning so far in advance?

00:07:25: from booking holidays months ahead to scheduling dinner two weeks out.

00:07:29: And how does that shape social life here?

00:07:32: The answer, planning is seen as a form

00:07:34: of respect.

00:07:36: By organizing early, people show they value your time and want to make sure things actually happen.

00:07:42: It also reflects a desire to reduce uncertainty, whether it's getting the train you want, the vacation you planned, or just making sure friends can really be there.

00:07:51: For internationals, This can take some adjusting, but once you lean into it, you'll often find spontaneity still exist here.

00:07:59: It just happens within a framework of planning.

00:08:02: So if your German friends ask to meet in three weeks, don't take it as a brush off.

00:08:07: Take it as a promise that it will

00:08:08: happen.

00:08:09: I'm going to start this interview with a Mexican word that it's called apapacho.

00:08:16: Apapacho.

00:08:17: comes as far as I understand from the Nahuatl, something that weirdly enough my dad still speaks.

00:08:24: A lot of people don't know that my dad still speaks in the Nahuatl.

00:08:30: And that papato means

00:08:32: to

00:08:33: hug with a heart.

00:08:35: And if you're outside of your country... and you find someone from your own nationality and you ask them for a hug.

00:08:44: In Mexico, actually, when you see Mexicans, they hug you with a heart and they give you anapapato.

00:08:49: And you need sometimes in this, at this point, very cold weather, anapapato.

00:08:55: And this is one of the reasons why we're today talking with Nancy Bravo.

00:09:00: Nancy Bravo is also another Mexican, and every time I see her, it's not only about the communication that we have, but soul apapato that we have.

00:09:10: We can talk about things that matter, we can talk about things that are in our heads, as internationals in Germany, and all of the migration process we have been through.

00:09:24: without any more into this interview.

00:09:28: This is Nancy Bravo.

00:09:29: Nancy, welcome.

00:09:31: Thank you.

00:09:31: Thank you very much for this great invitation to your podcast secret.

00:09:37: Nancy, you have been here in Germany for how long now?

00:09:41: Twenty-four years.

00:09:44: Do you feel yourself German, Berliner, half everything?

00:09:50: Well, I am... hamburger I am Mexican and a Mexican woman in Hamburg with a bike cultural family and yes I feel good in Germany.

00:10:02: you started this journey twenty four years ago which probably was a very different Germany that we have today and you started your own company around fourteen thirteen years ago.

00:10:16: so

00:10:16: tell us a little bit about.

00:10:19: Well, Bravo Intercultural is an agency about interculturality for companies, for universities, for expat people.

00:10:32: What I do is to give this apapacho to the people, to give this hope that Germany is not really bad and Germany is a good option.

00:10:46: to work and to life.

00:10:47: This is my work with interculturality with my agency and with my book Bravo Soy Internacional.

00:10:56: These tools helped me to connect with the people.

00:11:01: There are a lot of questions that I want to ask you, but let's start with the basic one.

00:11:06: What is actually intercultural?

00:11:09: Well, good questions.

00:11:12: Let me explain you some very general.

00:11:15: Berlin.

00:11:16: You are in Berlin and Berlin is a multicultural city.

00:11:23: Yes, many cultures in the same place.

00:11:26: Interculturality is the interaction between these people without a level.

00:11:33: So, Augen Hohe is the world in German.

00:11:36: So, in the same level.

00:11:39: I accept you.

00:11:40: I accept the differences, diversity.

00:11:43: We are in the same place and we can interact.

00:11:47: This is interculturality.

00:11:48: And then, the trasculturality, we can create together our own culture, the best of your culture, the best of your culture, and we create a culture in Germany together.

00:12:02: We are only in the first level, multiculturality.

00:12:07: Are we afraid to lose our culture?

00:12:11: When we migrate, when more people from other countries come in, where does this fear come from?

00:12:18: How can we overwind it?

00:12:20: Because, I mean, it is a topic that the IFD is kind of pushing through.

00:12:25: So it is a very

00:12:26: controversial topic, but as an expert.

00:12:29: Well, I can say that it is normal.

00:12:34: It is normal to have a group to have an identity, to have a connection with some people because this is security, this is your comfort zone.

00:12:48: And of course, you need to imagine, so I am in a cave and I go out to the cave and all is dangerous because I don't know what happened out of my cave.

00:13:02: And this is the situation.

00:13:04: If you don't connect, so... to each other with other people with other languages

00:13:11: of

00:13:11: course is dangerous because you don't know what is this.

00:13:18: and this is the problem the identity.

00:13:21: so I have my Mexican identity.

00:13:24: I know who I am but I need to adapt in my new environment but at the same time the other part need to do the same.

00:13:39: And the reality right now is this separation.

00:13:44: We need to connect again with Apapachus.

00:13:50: You see, I knew that this word was a good starting point with it.

00:13:56: Let us make a short break and more when we get back.

00:14:01: We're back with Nancy and the Apapatos.

00:14:04: I hope that you like that word and you will include it at some point in your vocabulary and say that at least Mexicans, we hug with the heart.

00:14:13: We definitely do and we like to hug people and make them feel comfortable.

00:14:19: And we were talking about, of course, this fear we have when we're from another country.

00:14:31: I'm gonna go real quick on a personal note here because I was thinking of course we have the race of the AFD and not only in Germany, all over the world.

00:14:41: We're just so many cultures.

00:14:44: We're moving, I guess, a little bit more than before.

00:14:47: I can just think back on my grandmother.

00:14:50: She moved to Mexico in nineteen thirty.

00:14:53: She was German.

00:14:54: She never saw her grandmother again.

00:14:56: She never really had the continuity of her own German hood because they weren't not that, I mean, they didn't have WhatsApp, they didn't have Instagram, they didn't know what was happening really on real time, something that we can do.

00:15:15: And for us to take our, I can see every day what's happening in Mexico.

00:15:23: So of course it's even more complicated because I am here, but I'm also there.

00:15:31: And is this... Is this something that we should talk and discuss a little bit more about?

00:15:39: the importance of maybe not being this involved in the other country or in our own country and then getting more maybe more involved where we are at the moment?

00:15:50: I mean it's of course a lot of mindfulness.

00:15:52: but I just think about my grandmother.

00:15:53: she she just went to Mexico and she needed to start speaking Spanish and she needed to start eating tortillas.

00:15:59: and uh yes of course she still got her German with her and she gave it to us.

00:16:07: and So we came back to Germany and we're still living that German part, but also that Mexican part.

00:16:14: And but going back a little bit to my question How do you feel about this part of that?

00:16:20: We can always watch what's happening in our country.

00:16:23: Is this something good for us for this integration part?

00:16:26: Or is it something that maybe we should be a little bit more mindful of and try to disengage a little bit from what's happening in our home country.

00:16:36: Very interesting question.

00:16:38: I think this is an ability.

00:16:40: This is this cultural awareness, what I do.

00:16:44: So you need a training about your cultural awareness.

00:16:47: You need to understand today that this global world makes you crazy with a lot of information.

00:16:57: Of course, I am here.

00:16:59: And I have connection with Mexico and with all this information from my country.

00:17:03: But I am here.

00:17:05: I need to understand who I am, which culture I have, and what I want to achieve here in Germany.

00:17:13: And I need to enjoy that.

00:17:15: And for that, you need to understand your cultural shock process.

00:17:26: What is the cultural shock process?

00:17:28: Good.

00:17:28: So cultural shock is... It's a moment in your life where you lost all your symbols, languages, religions, your comfort zone.

00:17:41: You are go out of your comfort zone and all is moving and you don't know who you are.

00:17:47: And you have anxiety and you have fear and you have so many things in your head and this is normal.

00:17:54: but you need some tools and some help to say okay I am here.

00:18:01: this is dangerous.

00:18:02: I need to go up again and what I can do to to for my integration for my adaptation to enjoy my life here.

00:18:13: so cultural shock is the loss of your comfort zone and the loss of your other reality.

00:18:21: so in general

00:18:23: And with this also sometimes comes a little bit of hate for the other culture, because you're used to doing something on your own pace.

00:18:32: I'm gonna go with the typical Mexican thing.

00:18:34: We come late.

00:18:36: We come always late to everything.

00:18:37: It's part of our culture.

00:18:39: We do it.

00:18:40: So when someone says that we have to be five minutes before that, we start going like, no, why?

00:18:46: Like, why are they so square?

00:18:48: Why do I have to be, I mean... Inner in your like why?

00:18:52: and then maybe that's a point where you're start hating the other culture Which is definitely not a good point to start with.

00:18:59: no great great great example.

00:19:01: Let me see.

00:19:02: so You need to understand this is this is my work as an interculturalist.

00:19:09: You need to understand your cultural mindset.

00:19:12: We come from Mexico.

00:19:14: So in Mexico we have this flexible on short term planification.

00:19:21: We have the improvisation.

00:19:23: This is normal for us because our reality, because our culture, because the nature, because the politics, for many reasons.

00:19:32: You need to know that.

00:19:34: Why I am like I am.

00:19:37: Then... Where I am now, right now, I am in Germany, with a long-term planification program, with structures, with roles, with punctuality.

00:19:49: Where come from punctuality?

00:19:50: Ah, yes, I know.

00:19:52: Depression values, and it is a very important mark on this country.

00:19:56: Okay, this is important here.

00:19:58: I need to adapt it.

00:19:59: And then, you say, aha.

00:20:02: This is my culture.

00:20:04: This is not me.

00:20:05: I don't need stress.

00:20:06: I need to know some some strategies, some tools, and then I can adapt.

00:20:13: It's me.

00:20:15: I am flexible, but I adapt for this situation.

00:20:18: But in my free time, I am like that.

00:20:20: And for this work, or for this project, I am... punctual structure.

00:20:26: And this is a play, a play with the intercultural tools.

00:20:30: And this is my work with the people to understand this, this play, like a game.

00:20:38: People, how you put it, that's a play.

00:20:41: Let's not make it negative.

00:20:43: Let's make it actually positive.

00:20:44: Like you're here, you can play with who you are, you can evolve.

00:20:48: I think migration is, it's the constant, it's being constant on psychology training and constant confronting yourself with your fears with everything.

00:21:00: Just when you think you've got it right.

00:21:03: you have to start from the beginning.

00:21:05: yeah of course of course and for us it is very normal the interculturalist we say okay you are in the long term perception a place and you are in the short time perception place and okay I understand where I am and what I need to do now.

00:21:22: so a little bit so like a graph like a visual thing and then you can relax and enjoy.

00:21:28: you give these tools to people.

00:21:31: You've written a book and this is what you do.

00:21:35: So where can we get your book?

00:21:38: What is your book about?

00:21:39: And yeah, let's start with the book.

00:21:41: Well, my book, Bravo Soy Internacional, I wrote this book because when I come to Germany, I had many, many questions.

00:21:50: And after, so seven years after I arrived, I had again a culture shock.

00:21:58: And for this reason, I investigate and I did studies about interculturality.

00:22:04: because these tools help me to understand my new life.

00:22:10: I have many big biographies, many books in English and German, but not in Spanish.

00:22:18: For this reason, I wrote this book because we don't have these tools.

00:22:24: We don't know what happened with

00:22:26: us

00:22:27: in our new country.

00:22:29: And this is the reason why I wrote Bravo So Intercultural, and at the same time I gave tools.

00:22:37: I interviewed some people, so success stories, and this is in general what Bravo Intercultural is, so a mix of success stories and tools.

00:22:52: That is always a very good tip, and what is your web page?

00:22:59: Minusintercultural.com.

00:23:02: This is my webpage and you can find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, Nancy.Bravo.

00:23:11: And you also give workshops.

00:23:13: Yes.

00:23:13: What can we expect from your workshop?

00:23:16: An amazing day with a lot of role plays, a lot of exercises, videos, study cases.

00:23:25: So you need to... enjoy, but you need to know what happened with your process.

00:23:33: You have an experiment with your feelings and with your body, with your mind.

00:23:38: So it's very, very experimental, very interactive.

00:23:42: That sounds amazing.

00:23:44: Nancy, I think we can talk about this in another interview.

00:23:49: If it's okay with you, we can do a follow up in a couple of months because there's so much to say about interculturality.

00:23:57: And of course, the reason why we're here and how we can, on one side, better adapt and deal also with the external pressure that is happening at the moment, politically wise.

00:24:12: But

00:24:13: I think we can definitely keep talking and give more tools to people.

00:24:19: Yes, of course.

00:24:19: Great, great idea.

00:24:22: Nancy, thank you so much for being with us today.

00:24:24: and we hope to hear very soon from you for a part two.

00:24:29: Thank you too for the invitation.

00:24:32: Bye bye.

00:24:36: Why do you take off your shoes when you arrive at home?

00:24:41: What is the reason for that?