Week 51: Failure, Freedom, and Founding in Germany with Munay Zamorano

00:00:00:

00:00:03: Welcome to another edition of PLUS-FORTY-NINE.

00:00:07: My name is Andrea Famel and we are so happy to have you here again.

00:00:11: As we move closer to the end of the year, Germany begins to change pace.

00:00:16: Emails slow down, calendars empty and suddenly it feels like the country is gently stepping away from daily life.

00:00:23: If you've ever wondered whether this is normal, yes it is.

00:00:29: And today's episode is all about understanding that exactly moment.

00:00:34: Before we get there, we'll look at what's happening in the news, a new government portal inviting citizens to call out unnecessary bureaucracy, changes to Germany's trained timetable, and the growing debate around ultra-cheap online shopping platforms like Timmel.

00:00:53: And then, in culture, we'll unpack one of the most confusing and quietly comforting German traditions.

00:01:02: Zwischen den Jan.

00:01:03: Exactly that time when Germany seems to disappear between Christmas and New Year.

00:01:09: We'll also answer a classic Ask a German question and take a look at what's still happening in Hannover for those staying put while the rest of the country slows down.

00:01:19: Let's start with the news.

00:01:21: Germany is making a rare and very German move, asking its citizens where things have become too complicated.

00:01:27: A new federal online portal has been launched where people can report examples of excessive or unnecessary bureaucracy.

00:01:37: Whether it's confusing forms, duplicated processes or outdated rules, the goal is to collect real-life cases and use them to simplify administration.

00:01:47: The project is part of a broader modernization agenda and aims to make public services more efficient and more user-friendly.

00:01:56: Maybe a small but maybe also meaningful step into a country famous for paperwork.

00:02:05: Next.

00:02:05: A practical update for anyone who travels by train.

00:02:09: The annual Deutsche Bahn timetable change comes into effect in mid-December.

00:02:14: Some long distance routes will benefit from more frequent ICE connections and minor improvements in travel times.

00:02:22: At the same time, construction projects mean disruptions and longer journeys on certain lines.

00:02:27: Regular commuters are advised to double check their routes.

00:02:31: Even familiar ones as schedules may shift.

00:02:35: And finally, a topic that has sparked growing debate.

00:02:39: Temu and the three-euro question.

00:02:43: The online marketplace has become hugely popular in Germany thanks to ultra-low prices on everyday items.

00:02:49: But consumer groups and politicians are raising concerns about product safety, environmental impact and unfair competition.

00:02:57: In our country, built on standards and regulation, the question many are asking is not just how something can be so cheap, but what the real cost might be.

00:03:09: Why do Germans disappear?

00:03:12: Zwischen den Jahren.

00:03:13: If this is your first winter in Germany, the days after Christmas may feel strange.

00:03:19: Officers are closed, emails go unanswered, shopping malls are closed, supermarkets are closed, so be prepared, and trying to schedule a meeting feels almost rude.

00:03:32: This period has a name.

00:03:34: Zwischen den Jahren.

00:03:35: Between the years.

00:03:37: Historically, these days were seen as a kind of threshold.

00:03:42: In older calendar systems, the year didn't begin immediately after Christmas.

00:03:46: The time in between was considered a pause, a moment outside of ordinary time.

00:03:52: That idea still shapes German culture today.

00:03:55: Modern Germany is efficient, structured, and deadline-driven.

00:03:59: But Speschen Danijan is the exception.

00:04:02: It's a socially accepted pause.

00:04:04: where productivity is not expected and availability is low.

00:04:09: Many companies shut down entirely.

00:04:11: Schools are closed, childcare is limited and no one is surprised if emails wait until January.

00:04:18: Culturally, this reflects a deep German belief in boundaries, especially between work and rest.

00:04:24: These days are four family, long walks, cleaning out cupboards, reading books or simply doing nothing.

00:04:30: And doing nothing in this context is not laziness, it's recovery.

00:04:34: For experts, this can be unsettling at first, but it's also an invitation.

00:04:39: Stop pushing, stop expecting quick replies, and allow yourself to slow down with everyone else.

00:04:45: Germany hasn't stopped functioning, it's just resting.

00:04:49: So if the country feels quiet, don't worry, it's not broken, it's just... it's Virgin Danielle.

00:04:58: My guest today is someone whose story touches all of these layers, I think.

00:05:02: Migration, entrepreneurship, identity... and maybe a little bit of the search for belonging.

00:05:11: I met Munai in the summer this year and her energy just stroke me on stage.

00:05:22: It was a talk about women in business and she there talking about failure and what it means to fail and what you can learn about failing.

00:05:35: And yeah, she has this incredible presence on stage, also live.

00:05:42: And her voice will probably strike all of you.

00:05:46: She has an amazing laugh and she loves taking her coffee with almond milk.

00:05:54: That's an insight that we might get to know between her and me.

00:06:00: Okay.

00:06:02: And yes, as I said, her name is Monaisa Morano.

00:06:04: She's an entrepreneur, a mentor, speaker, networking, and everything in between.

00:06:10: Her father is from Chile.

00:06:12: Her mother is German and US American.

00:06:16: She was born in Germany, lived a little bit in Chile, then came back to Germany.

00:06:23: And after a short while in the US, she decided that Germany was her home.

00:06:29: Welcome, Monay.

00:06:31: So nice to be here.

00:06:32: Thank you.

00:06:34: It's amazing to have you on board.

00:06:37: Okay, so let's get started.

00:06:41: For those who don't know you, how would you describe your journey?

00:06:46: Both personally and geographically, because you've lived besides Germany and other places, what do you like about Germany?

00:06:57: Do you think you're a migrant or you have never seen yourself as such?

00:07:03: Such an interesting question to start with.

00:07:06: No, I I do not see myself as a migrant because I was born in Germany and in many occasions I feel very German even though there's also just as many times where I don't

00:07:15: feel German at all.

00:07:18: You might notice that when I'm loud when I love too much for Germans taste But I've seen myself as a German always and What I've liked, especially when I compare the three of my homelands, my home countries, is that in Germany everything tends to work.

00:07:39: And that is something that I value a lot.

00:07:43: That is something that... makes me appreciate and I'm very lonely with this take but it makes me appreciate German bureaucracy also because I understand and I know that for things to work

00:07:56: there have

00:07:57: to be processes and these processes may suck and they may be hard and annoying but they also ensure that things work in Germany which is not always the case in

00:08:07: both

00:08:07: Chile and the US.

00:08:09: Oh my God, that's a really strong start.

00:08:15: And I think you talk a lot about bureaucracy because you know what it means to build a business, to start something, and you mentor also people around building businesses, what it means as someone who wants to just start something.

00:08:36: I do, but let me tell you, because I'm not a typical founder, so that's important to know.

00:08:42: There's an important distinction here.

00:08:44: I am a business successor, and what business succession is, is I took over a business, so I continued on with a business that I didn't start, and the way this happened is a very interesting story.

00:08:57: When I was twenty-three, I was the working student, I was studying business, and part-time I was working in a startup.

00:09:05: And this startup was selling natural cosmetics.

00:09:08: It was a beautiful place to work at.

00:09:11: We were ten people, very small startup.

00:09:15: And then the founder, she decided to go on and found another company.

00:09:20: which what an amazing energy and she wanted to fully focus on that new business.

00:09:26: so she decided to sell the old company.

00:09:28: I mean it wasn't that old but she to her it was her old business right.

00:09:32: and she told us she just brought as employees together in that workspace and just told us about her idea of selling the business and her plan to find a buyer.

00:09:44: and in that moment I did raise my hand and I was like yeah okay great I'll take it

00:09:48: I'll buy it and you only people hold your horses.

00:09:53: she was only twenty three years old so that's bold.

00:09:57: that's extremely rare.

00:09:59: how did it did that happen?

00:10:01: it was this

00:10:04: This was not my family business.

00:10:05: I had no family relation to this business at all.

00:10:09: And it was also far from being a millionaire.

00:10:11: I did have to take on a huge loan from the bank.

00:10:15: in order to actually do this.

00:10:16: This was a huge process.

00:10:18: It took me a year to get there.

00:10:19: Yeah, I can probably imagine a twenty three year old girl that wants to buy a cosmetic studio.

00:10:26: It was a cosmetic brand.

00:10:28: It was probably like not so common for the bank.

00:10:31: You probably had to ask more than once.

00:10:33: Yeah, let me let me.

00:10:35: explain the business a little bit because it was not a studio, it was not a brand, it was a wholesale agency.

00:10:40: What

00:10:40: we did is we imported different sustainable beauty brands from all over the world to Germany and to Europe.

00:10:47: And then we signed these exclusive distribution contracts where we would be the only ones that were allowed to sell these specific brands either in the Dachh region or in the entirety of Europe.

00:11:00: And then we sold to beauty shops basically.

00:11:04: Okay, like Douglas, Rosemann, Flakoni,

00:11:06: etc.

00:11:08: Those were your customers.

00:11:10: And you told me before that you had these companies for, I think, five years and after that you decided to sell them.

00:11:21: Exactly, yes.

00:11:22: I'm no longer owner of that company.

00:11:24: I had it for five years.

00:11:25: It was, I had a great time and then I had a hard time and then I sold it about a

00:11:32: year ago.

00:11:34: Where did you decide to sell?

00:11:36: What moved you there?

00:11:38: Was it the same emotional feeling that brought you to buy the company?

00:11:44: And then you said, okay, I need an emotional liberation.

00:11:49: That's a very interesting question because a lot of things happened for me and to me during those five years.

00:11:55: Obviously, it's a wild ride.

00:11:56: It's crazy.

00:11:57: We must also not forget that this was my first proper job, right?

00:12:01: Like being the owner of a business was my first actual real full-time job.

00:12:05: We're just insane

00:12:06: to think about.

00:12:11: That's absolutely insane.

00:12:13: But it's amazing.

00:12:14: was when I was twenty three I had actually applied to this working student job at the specific startup because I was very driven driven towards anything natural sustainable.

00:12:24: I was in my like saving the world era which is I'm still in that energy but at that point in time I very much felt like doing this, buying this business and continuing the sales of all these amazing natural cosmetics products was very aligned with my values of like saving the world, like fighting climate change, all of that.

00:12:47: In my time, during my time as the owner of this company, I got to learn more and more about the natural cosmetics market, about the products, about the impact of all sorts of packaging.

00:12:59: I was always evaluating the packaging of all of our products, which was a pain.

00:13:04: And I got to learn that... Anything that says sustainable is not always sustainable.

00:13:11: I also started to have my doubts just with the cosmetics market in general because I entered very much thinking this is my idea of saving the world, saving the planet.

00:13:25: And then after selling seventeen thousand lipsticks to some beauty shop.

00:13:30: I started questioning that, especially after meeting other founders that were doing far more impactful things for the climate, because Berlin's founder scene is obviously amazing.

00:13:43: I met some fantastic people that also had the effect on me of me questioning is what I'm doing really the right path.

00:13:51: And emotionally, after I would say about two or three years, I had to say no, this is not the path, my forever path.

00:13:59: But to be fair, based on this feeling alone, I would have never thought about selling the company, maybe in ten, twenty years, I don't know, but I had been so dramatic and it had been such a hassle buying the thing in the first place.

00:14:17: That I would have felt like, I don't know, like a scam if I sold it after two or three years.

00:14:24: I would have never, never touched on that idea and reality.

00:14:28: But then we had four amazing years of growth.

00:14:31: That was fantastic.

00:14:33: And then in our fifth year or in my fifth year of being an owner, our biggest customer very spontaneously stopped buying from really from one day to the next, I said, okay, and this was a customer that was buying about fourteen brands from us.

00:14:53: in all of Europe about that.

00:14:57: So this customer was generating about forty percent of our revenue, which then to lose forty percent of your revenue from one day to the next is already horrible.

00:15:08: That's already, you're already in crisis mode immediately.

00:15:11: But then what you also need to think about is, since we were importing our brands from the US, from Australia, and in the name of sustainability, we were doing so by Cargo ship.

00:15:21: So these things are like the products we were we were importing.

00:15:24: they were out there on the ocean for months on time To get here and we had prepaid them.

00:15:30: so we had paid for these products before receiving them, right?

00:15:33: Okay, so the money was gone.

00:15:35: products were not here yet.

00:15:36: and then when they arrived and first of all they had a long journey behind them already and Natural cosmetics they don't use the same kind of preservatives that that conventional cosmetics use, right?

00:15:51: So these products, the best before was about twelve months, which for a normal consumer, that's not a problem, right?

00:15:58: If you see a product, you're like, okay, that's good for twelve more months, that's fine.

00:16:02: But we were selling to the shop.

00:16:03: Right?

00:16:04: And the shop wanted the product to be good for six months on the shelf and then wanted to sell it to the customer.

00:16:09: And then the customer wants to have it in their home, maybe just store it, maybe give it to a friend later.

00:16:14: And then they want to open it and still have it be good for six months because you don't use up a product in a day, right?

00:16:20: So basically we had lots of product arriving to our warehouse and every day the clock was ticking and these products were becoming more and more worthless.

00:16:31: So we were in absolute crisis mode.

00:16:34: And that's the moment where I actually felt relief because I said, wow, this is an external reason to actually look for a buyer and sell the company.

00:16:44: And then I looked for a buyer.

00:16:46: Very luckily I had a fantastic network.

00:16:48: I found someone and I sold the company, which was very much aligned with my gut feeling.

00:16:55: Okay.

00:16:55: So it was actually liberating emotionally and.

00:16:59: in every sense of the word.

00:17:01: It was.

00:17:02: It was actually, yes.

00:17:05: Did you ever feel in those, I would say short years, those five short years, maybe very long years also?

00:17:16: Very

00:17:16: long.

00:17:16: Let me assure you, five years of owning a business with employees and everything, that feels very

00:17:22: normal.

00:17:23: Did you ever feel like you... earned the success or did you have ever like this imposter syndrome?

00:17:31: Because it happens a lot among women.

00:17:34: Luckily I was born without imposter syndrome.

00:17:38: I've never had it.

00:17:39: I've never experienced it.

00:17:40: I definitely know many people who have it.

00:17:43: I definitely believe that it is real and that it's a problem.

00:17:47: But luckily for me, I never had it.

00:17:49: But then also, I don't think I always felt wonderfully successful because we were always a small company and under my ownership we were always about five employees.

00:18:02: so it was always also a struggle.

00:18:05: it was never like I woke up and said okay everything's running smoothly everything's fantastic I have no problem to solve today.

00:18:12: I was always waking up and there were a ton of problems and a ton of issues and something wasn't working.

00:18:17: and in a company in a small business like that when you're just five employees and and me right Every issue was landing on my desk like from this big client says they don't want to buy anymore to The printer's not working fix it that.

00:18:32: all of that and everything in between With everything that my employees couldn't solve was landing on my desk.

00:18:37: and let me tell you I also don't know how to fix a printer.

00:18:42: Have you tried turning it off and on?

00:18:44: I tried seventeen times because I did not have the budget to buy a new one.

00:18:53: Back to

00:18:54: you

00:18:55: being like this multicultural personality, do you think that that shaped how you confront businesses, how you take decisions, how you solve problems, how you approach all the problems, and maybe even your employees?

00:19:18: I think growing up in a very multicultural environment shaped me.

00:19:24: as a person so much that everything I do and my entire personality is so much defined and shaped by that experience that I would even go so far as to say almost all of my actions are definitely influenced by me.

00:19:44: growing up in this multicultural environment.

00:19:46: Yes.

00:19:47: for sure.

00:19:48: It makes me way more understanding oftentimes of other lived realities and it makes me very much aware of the amount of different lived experiences that are out there.

00:20:03: Yeah, I think that's a sensitivity that you only get through Maybe not only, but it definitely shapes how you approach other people and how you hear other people.

00:20:18: So then we can take from there and we can talk about your purpose and your vision with the Female Founder Academy.

00:20:26: That's your... Baby?

00:20:31: Well, it is true that after I sold my natural cosmetics business, it took me twelve days until I was back starting my new business.

00:20:41: You

00:20:43: take decisions fast.

00:20:45: Exactly.

00:20:46: I cannot stand still.

00:20:48: So I did found the Female Thunder Academy approximately twelve days after selling.

00:20:55: selling my my old company.

00:20:57: Okay, tell us about the fumar

00:21:00: founder academy.

00:21:01: Yeah, initially it was just something that I used, like a vehicle that I used so that I could continue writing invoices, because as you know in Germany, things have to have order, right?

00:21:18: and then it evolved into something beautiful.

00:21:20: So what I do is I work with selected, I started out working only with female founders and mentoring them.

00:21:30: Most of my clients I see about once a week, we do an hour of talking and figuring out their issues, their problems.

00:21:40: in and with both their businesses and German bureaucracy because I've quite a bit of experience there now.

00:21:49: I do work with founders from all different kinds of areas and actually I was surprised when male founders started approaching me and started sending me very respectful messages on LinkedIn saying hey I know your business is called Female Founder Academy but I see you posting and I see your expertise and Please, please, please, if this is an option for you, even though I'm not female, could you work with me,

00:22:11: please?

00:22:12: So this has actually evolved, and I also take male founders now, because I love to just go with the flow and go where life takes me.

00:22:20: And that was also such beautiful and positive feedback for me, being approached in that way of, hey, I know you usually don't work, but can we make it work somehow because I support

00:22:31: you?

00:22:31: And the name is like female founder.

00:22:33: It's also a huge step for, I'm going to say a male to approach a company or some mentor that is selling like this female founder.

00:22:45: And

00:22:45: that's why that's what

00:22:46: makes me respect

00:22:47: those messages even more.

00:22:49: Yeah, because I know

00:22:50: it takes courage.

00:22:52: It takes strength.

00:22:53: Absolutely.

00:22:54: It's a double boundary, I would say.

00:22:58: And then there's one more thing that I do a lot and that I love doing also is I host workshops for different kinds of startup programs.

00:23:08: So I work with universities, I work with startup incubators, I work with startup accelerators all over Germany.

00:23:14: I'm very lucky in that way.

00:23:17: And I get to get to host workshops for these founders in these programs.

00:23:22: on different toppings.

00:23:23: So I do one workshop that is called networking for founders because networking is one of those soft skills that you can actually learn and it is incredibly valuable.

00:23:34: It's fantastic to be a good networker.

00:23:37: And then I host a workshop called Personal Brands for Founders, where I teach founders and first-time founders specifically how to be present on LinkedIn, how to reach their goals, their business goals through social media, and how to position their products, how to grow sales, how to do social selling, and how to portray their founder's journey in a way that makes it interesting for press also.

00:24:04: Okay, that's a really huge thing and that's a really interesting part of you.

00:24:10: And what do you see in those workshops?

00:24:13: Do you see a lot or a bigger percentage of migrants or is it mostly Germans?

00:24:23: How do you see the, I'm gonna say the feeling of founding or the feeling of starting up among the... foreign population in Germany?

00:24:37: Well, I mean my lived experience is I never know But I can always count on the fact that there will be migrant founders in every group I visit.

00:24:46: So what I have adopted is I have my presentation ready, both in German and English.

00:24:51: And then I always ask, hey, should we hold it in German or English?

00:24:54: And most of the time, the group chooses English because there will be a few individuals that have not been in Germany for very long.

00:25:01: I mean, the statistics actually show that my lived experience is also statistically relevant.

00:25:08: Migrants in Germany

00:25:10: have

00:25:11: a higher rate of founding businesses than Germans.

00:25:15: So, percentage-wise, migrants will have a higher percentage of starting their own business than Germans.

00:25:24: Do you have any idea why that

00:25:26: is?

00:25:28: I don't.

00:25:29: I don't.

00:25:29: I mean, I could go into guesswork, but there's probably also statistics on that.

00:25:37: Yeah, that's going to be maybe for another episode.

00:25:41: And what would you say that are your personal challenges or have been your personal challenges?

00:25:49: That's such a big question.

00:25:51: I think my personal challenges change very much with the life situation that I'm in.

00:25:57: I would say during my time of owning the wholesale agency, my challenges were very different from the challenges I face now.

00:26:04: I would also say there will always be some kind of challenge.

00:26:09: But being an entrepreneur, has thrown so many challenges my way that by now I am lucky enough to know that every challenge will be overcome somehow.

00:26:23: So I have gained such an amount

00:26:27: of

00:26:27: calmness just because I have seen so much happen and because so many unpredictable challenges have gone my way that by now almost nothing can faze me.

00:26:46: You just blew my mind.

00:26:46: But yeah, it's everything comes and goes.

00:26:51: What would you tell your twenty three year old version of yourself who bought that first company and with that experience that you have now?

00:27:01: That's a very interesting question.

00:27:03: I've thought about it often and I think I would stay quiet and say nothing because I was in such a blissful state of being naive, being

00:27:15: young,

00:27:16: absolutely having no idea what was about to come my way and what this decision meant.

00:27:23: But I think with all the knowledge I have now, if I were to lay all that on that twenty-three year old version of myself, I probably wouldn't have done it.

00:27:31: So I would like to keep myself naive.

00:27:36: And just say go for

00:27:37: it.

00:27:37: Exactly.

00:27:38: And just say go for it and do your thing.

00:27:40: you will learn on the way.

00:27:42: What would you say is the biggest myth about entrepreneurship?

00:27:48: Oh, there's so many.

00:27:48: I want to start with.

00:27:50: you have to work hard and hustle all the time and you can't sleep.

00:27:53: And I don't know, you can only be successful if you work all night and all day.

00:27:57: I want to end with that.

00:27:58: Please, for the love of everything.

00:28:01: Just go home, go to bed, get enough rest, get enough sleep.

00:28:04: You will only be successful if you get enough sleep.

00:28:08: Yeah, that's also an important part of success.

00:28:11: Like having a

00:28:11: healthy, healthy... That is absolutely that part of success, yes.

00:28:16: Okay, okay.

00:28:20: And again, just, do you see any difference between foreign entrepreneurs and local entrepreneurs?

00:28:33: Are there more... adventurous, is there a self-perception of showing up, a difference in confidence, or even do you see a unique strength among migrants?

00:28:54: That's such an interesting question.

00:28:56: I'm thinking about it for the first time now.

00:28:58: I think what I'm rather seeing is a difference between entrepreneurs and non-entrepreneurs.

00:29:06: Because through my work, obviously, I meet a lot of startup founders, a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of people starting on their founder's journey.

00:29:15: And what I see in all of them, no matter what cultural background, is such a curiosity, such a drive, such an openness to learning new things.

00:29:27: that is way higher, in my opinion.

00:29:30: then let's say the general population or that

00:29:34: have like this normal nine to five job that have a boss and yeah okay that's.

00:29:40: and

00:29:40: I would also say in entrepreneurs.

00:29:42: what I see is um a willingness to fail.

00:29:46: it's an it's a. it's a special kind of being okay with testing something and being okay with having it not work.

00:29:53: that is not.

00:29:54: that is not very ingrained in German culture.

00:29:58: that allowing myself to fail, doing something with an unknown outcome.

00:30:04: That is very un-German, I would say, but I see it in entrepreneurs.

00:30:07: And even in German entrepreneurs, I see that.

00:30:12: Yeah, that's an amazing take.

00:30:16: And it's definitely something that I have always, that I also have

00:30:22: seen

00:30:23: in my personal career.

00:30:28: I came to Germany when I was nineteen and that's a step that nowadays I don't know if I would do again.

00:30:36: So that daring to do something new and just going another way and failing, it's another dimension.

00:30:56: We go now to our closing part and this is Ask a German.

00:31:03: So what would you ask a German?

00:31:08: What would you like to know about Germany from a German?

00:31:13: You being a German.

00:31:14: That's

00:31:15: interesting.

00:31:16: I think me growing up most of my life in Germany, I feel so culturally German.

00:31:23: that I could probably be the German to answer these questions.

00:31:27: I don't think there's anything I don't know or don't understand about Germany.

00:31:30: No, I don't think I have a question.

00:31:34: And what would you say?

00:31:37: The funniest thing about Germany

00:31:39: that is always... No, they don't like to have a lot of fun if I obey.

00:31:51: I will definitely

00:31:51: play fun.

00:31:53: with my Chilean bad heritage, I will definitely play its fun and joyfulness

00:31:59: with that part of my culture.

00:32:04: Okay, you're missing fun in Germany.

00:32:06: Yeah, you're not the only one.

00:32:08: Everything can be more playful.

00:32:09: We can all be more joyful in just our daily lives.

00:32:14: Yeah.

00:32:14: I want to give listeners the task of finding something joyful in their day to day.

00:32:18: Okay.

00:32:19: That's it, that's an amazing way to closing up.

00:32:22: I want to tell you everybody what Munai means because Munai is a name that comes from Quechua.

00:32:29: On the one side it means eternal love and when you see Munai you can definitely see like eternal love to life.

00:32:37: and on the other side it means vitality and as you heard in

00:32:41: her voice

00:32:42: there is a lot of vitality going on.

00:32:45: And thank you again Monay for being here.

00:32:49: It was amazing.

00:32:50: It was an amazing talk and we will definitely will be having you back probably about a bureaucracy in Germany and why German bureaucracy is a bliss.

00:33:04: I'm ready.

00:33:06: Thank you.

00:33:10: And that's it for this episode of plus four nine.

00:33:13: your guide to life in Germany, even when Germany itself seems to be taking a pause.

00:33:18: If you want a column, clear overview of the news every morning, subscribe to our Morning Espresso.

00:33:24: It's free and lands straight in your inbox.

00:33:26: You can find us on Instagram at plus underline forty nine, and you have questions, stories, or your own experience of Zvezdenian.

00:33:36: Just drop us an email at info at plus forty nine dot d. I'm Andrea.

00:33:42: Take it slow, enjoy the quiet and we'll meet again on the other side of the year.

00:33:49: Have a nice Christmas and Happy New Year!