Week 4: God Has Done Well: Directness, Belonging, and Building a Life in Germany - Chiemela O.

00:00:00:

00:00:03: Hello and welcome back to plus for nine, your weekly guide to life in Germany.

00:00:07: I'm Andrea.

00:00:08: January is still settling in now.

00:00:11: The festive lights are gone.

00:00:14: The days are still short and dark and slippery.

00:00:18: And real life is very much back on the agenda.

00:00:22: But before winter completely tightens the script, Germany is already warming up for one of its loudest.

00:00:29: weirdest and most beloved traditions.

00:00:32: I'm just saying today in the news we're diving into the ongoing debate around lifestyle tight side.

00:00:40: The idea that younger workers are choosing reduced hours for quality of life rather than career acceleration.

00:00:48: And we'll pair it with another hot topic where Germany is suddenly talking about productivity performance and whether the country is still competitive enough.

00:00:59: They still are talking about it.

00:01:02: In culture, we turn our attention to carnival.

00:01:07: What it actually means, why it matters, and how this chaotic season fits into German identity, especially if you didn't grow up with it.

00:01:17: And later in the show, of course, we'll have our interview of the week with Cimela Ogó.

00:01:25: Let's start with the news.

00:01:30: First things first, the debate around lifestyle title.

00:01:35: The term has been popping up everywhere.

00:01:38: From political talk shows to LinkedIn posts, Ed describes a growing group of mostly younger professionals who consciously choose to work only part-time.

00:01:52: Not because they have to, but because they want to.

00:01:56: Supporters argue that reduced hours lead to better mental health, higher long-term productivity, and fewer burnout.

00:02:06: And also, your money is more worth it.

00:02:11: But of course, there are critics, and they see it as a symbol of a declining work ethic.

00:02:17: Some politicians and business leaders warn that Germany is already struggling with labor shortages, can't afford a widespread shift away from full-time work.

00:02:28: The numbers tell a more nuanced story.

00:02:31: Germany already has one of the highest part of employment rates in Europe, especially among women.

00:02:37: But what's new is the motivation.

00:02:41: Less family necessity, more life design.

00:02:44: If this is true, we'll see.

00:02:47: The debate touches on nerve because it raises a bigger question.

00:02:50: What should work actually look like in a modern society?

00:02:56: And that leads directly to our second story.

00:02:59: Germany's renewed productivity anxiety.

00:03:02: Recent economic forecasts show weak growth and public discourse has shifted toward competitiveness, efficiency of performance.

00:03:11: Some voices are calling for longer working hours, fewer public holidays, and even a rollback.

00:03:18: of remote work flexibility.

00:03:21: Others put it back, pointing out that productivity isn't just about our slot, but about systems, about tools, and of course about leadership.

00:03:33: And the clash between these two narratives, work less, but better, versus work more, to stay competitive, is shaping how Germany talks about its economic future in this year.

00:03:48: If you're new to Germany, carnival can feel confusing to say the less.

00:03:57: One minute

00:03:57: is January.

00:03:58: Everyone's serious.

00:04:00: Everyone's tired.

00:04:01: Everyone's like wanting to get over January.

00:04:05: And all of a sudden, people are dressed.

00:04:09: They are pirates, clowns, bananas, bees, and they start drinking beer at ten o'clock on a Thursday.

00:04:20: Carnival, also known as fashing, depending on the region, is deeply rooted in history.

00:04:27: Traditionally, it marks a period before land, a final celebration before forty days of restraint.

00:04:33: But culturally, it's much more than that.

00:04:36: In places like Cologne, Düsseldorf and Mainz, carnival is about temporary chaos.

00:04:43: Social hierarchies are inverted, Politicians are mocked, rules are loosened, and people are encouraged to be loud, silly, and slightly inappropriate.

00:04:54: Slightly, we can discuss about it.

00:04:58: But of course, all within clearly defined boundaries.

00:05:02: It's rebellious, but it's scheduled because we're in Germany.

00:05:08: One of the most important days is the fast mass.

00:05:12: The day when women symbolically take power.

00:05:15: They cut men's ties and kick off the street celebration.

00:05:21: And the days that follow are full of parades, costumes, satirical speeches that roast everyone from local mayors to global leaders.

00:05:32: For many Germans, Kahnnevar isn't an optional front.

00:05:36: It's an emotional release, a reminder that life can be serious all the time.

00:05:42: can't be serious all the time.

00:05:44: You endure winter deadlines and social rules and then for

00:05:50: only

00:05:50: a few days, you don't.

00:05:53: And for expats, Karneval can be overwhelming.

00:05:59: You're not expected to understand all the songs and all the jokes, but showing up would matter.

00:06:08: For expats, Karneval can be overwhelming.

00:06:11: You're not expected to understand all the songs and all the jokes.

00:06:15: But I can recommend a minimal participation.

00:06:20: A simple costume, a pup, another, a hello, or a laugh.

00:06:27: Hello, if you're in Dysseldorf, a laugh if you're in Cologne.

00:06:31: Don't mix them up.

00:06:33: You can get beaten up in the street.

00:06:36: And a willingness to lean into the absurd.

00:06:40: Just go with flow.

00:06:42: Think of Carnaval as a pressure valve, it's messy, it's loud, and that's not for everyone, but it plays a real role in the how Germans, or some Germans in the Rhine region above them all, they balance discipline with joy.

00:07:01: And of course, coming up later in the show, we'll be talking to Cimala Obu, our product leader with experience building and scaling digital products in complex.

00:07:12: global environments.

00:07:15: Chimela has worked across SAAS and automotive platforms, leading cross-functional teams to deliver products used by millions.

00:07:27: And what stands out in his work is his ability to turn unclear problems into simple practical solutions.

00:07:35: And that in German.

00:07:38: What is mantra?

00:07:40: Teamwork makes the dream work.

00:07:42: Of course, and what happens outside work, Chamella reads and is a long distance runner.

00:07:53: We'll talk about leadership clarity and what it really takes to build teams that work, no matter the borders, the time zones, and expectations.

00:08:09: On this week's episode, we're having a conversation with one of the best names I've ever heard in a long time.

00:08:17: And his name is Tumela.

00:08:19: Hello Tumela, welcome.

00:08:22: Hi Sigrid.

00:08:23: Thank you.

00:08:23: Thank you.

00:08:23: Pleasure to be here.

00:08:26: Does your name has a specific meaning, suggestion or anything?

00:08:31: Yes, yes it does.

00:08:32: So Tumela is actually a name from the eastern part of Nigeria.

00:08:37: It means... God has done well.

00:08:41: So in Nigeria, there are a lot of variations to what it can mean.

00:08:44: Okay, you hear some people say it means thank God, you know, but I love the translation.

00:08:52: God has done well.

00:08:53: So that's what it means.

00:08:55: Yes.

00:08:56: Oh, that is a great name.

00:09:01: Definitely.

00:09:01: And from people in Germany say it, or is it kind of a very complicated way?

00:09:06: Yeah, I mean, people try, but because of the C, it comes out Kimela.

00:09:13: So there's the car sound with it.

00:09:16: So the, you know, most people call it Kimela, you know, but I also have, you know, an alias that I tell them, oh, you can call me Chimx, you know, it's shorter letters and it's a lot more easy.

00:09:28: It's easier to pronounce, right?

00:09:30: So I have a lot of people that call me Chimx at work, you know, colleagues and all of that.

00:09:34: Yeah.

00:09:35: But they try, they try their best to pronounce it.

00:09:39: Well in Mexico they cannot say my name and in Germany they cannot say my last name.

00:09:44: so I think I'm just gonna find some another way of solution.

00:09:52: How long have you been living in Germany?

00:09:56: A little over four years.

00:09:57: I moved here August, twenty-twenty-one.

00:10:03: Okay, what brought you to Germany?

00:10:05: Because it probably wasn't the weather.

00:10:08: Definitely not the weather.

00:10:12: So I actually moved for work.

00:10:16: I got an offer with a consulting company at the time.

00:10:20: So yeah, it was an interesting offer and for me it was an opportunity to work in any different environment.

00:10:29: I mean, I have been working with international colleagues before then but remotely, right?

00:10:34: So it brought that a new culture, new environment, new adjustment, right?

00:10:42: And yeah, I'm always up for a challenge, so I jumped in it.

00:10:47: And Germany is certainly a challenge.

00:10:50: Definitely, definitely.

00:10:51: And it's still challenging four years later, so that hasn't changed.

00:10:56: I don't think it will ever.

00:10:57: And especially, I don't know, where are you based?

00:11:00: I'm based in Berlin.

00:11:01: Okay, so you were also... skating the last couple of days, right?

00:11:06: Unfortunately not.

00:11:09: I mean, I was seeing the pictures, but I just didn't, you know, find the time to go and experience it myself.

00:11:14: Yeah.

00:11:16: I've

00:11:18: been here fifteen years and I've never seen the leaves being icy.

00:11:23: I was very impressed by that.

00:11:25: Yeah, even I think today as well, right?

00:11:29: It snowed and it's yeah.

00:11:31: quite dry and and and white and yeah I mean it's good.

00:11:36: So I was in Wolfsburg for I think three years but I moved to Berlin somewhere around yeah, twenty-twenty-four there about and I mean it's been a different experience right different experience here but I'm liking it so far liking it so far.

00:11:55: So you said that you were working a lot with international teams.

00:12:01: Is it different now that you're here in Germany, how you experience the German culture, the situation in general?

00:12:11: I mean, it's slightly different.

00:12:14: But the fundamentals are still the same.

00:12:17: So I had colleagues at the time, you know, Indian colleagues, mostly, you know, colleagues in the US as well.

00:12:25: But I think the stark difference is in the, in the, in the culture of boots.

00:12:35: regions, right?

00:12:36: So here in Europe, I have been enjoying a lot more directness from my colleagues.

00:12:43: So when I compare that to the Indian colleagues I had or the American colleagues, right?

00:12:49: So it's been a lot more direct.

00:12:51: And I'm someone who appreciates that kind of setting.

00:12:55: So it's been interesting and it's been interesting so far.

00:12:58: So I'll say that's me.

00:13:01: Yes, one big significance or difference.

00:13:04: Another one, of course, was, you know, learning to adapt my mode of conversation to suit, you know, my audience, right?

00:13:14: Because, you know, in Nigeria, there are a lot of, yeah, you know, the vocabulary is a bit, you know, we speak a bit fast.

00:13:23: There are a lot of slangs in, you know, in the conversation.

00:13:26: And sometimes this also happens in a workplace, right?

00:13:28: But coming here, you have colleagues that If you're not speaking really slow, they just can't understand what you're saying, right?

00:13:37: So having to make all these adjustments, you know, to make sure that when you're communicating, the other person understands what you're saying, right?

00:13:44: So that was also another adjustment.

00:13:47: But yeah, they've all been, I would say, positive adjustments here, quite, quite frankly.

00:13:53: for the weather part because we're still at the end of January.

00:13:59: We still have a couple of more months to go.

00:14:02: Do you have any specific recommendation suggestion for anybody who is maybe it's first winter?

00:14:09: Although the first winter is always very nice because it's new and it's great and it's interesting.

00:14:14: And I think for the third, the second and the third, you're starting to hate it.

00:14:18: Do you have anything that will bring sun into your heart?

00:14:25: I mean, I would definitely say try to get a lot more active, okay, do some activity, just get your body moving because the weather is already depressing, you know, most days, so there has to be some activity that keeps you lively.

00:14:44: I think one thing that I also had to get used to is, you know, taking vitamin D tablets, that's something that I never did, you know.

00:14:52: back in my home country, but here, because of the light and sun, you know, all of those things.

00:14:59: Yeah, so I'd say definitely do some sports, some exercise, and of course, you know, taking those tablets just to make sure that your vitamin levels are, you know, at a good range because the lower they get, the more depressing it becomes, you know, and I face that as well, you know, in my first year.

00:15:21: you know, a lot of friends were telling me, oh, you need to do it.

00:15:23: I'm like, nah, it's not that serious.

00:15:26: It's not that serious.

00:15:27: Still, you know, I also got that mandate from a doctor.

00:15:31: Then I said, okay, so it's really that important, you know.

00:15:34: So it's also something that first-timers, you know, sometimes neglect and they think it's not that deep, but it's actually very important.

00:15:44: Yeah.

00:15:47: So Chamella, tell me, do you have friends from your home country?

00:15:51: Are you here?

00:15:52: Do you have a strong connection to your home country?

00:15:56: Oh, yes, I do.

00:15:57: Yes, I do.

00:15:57: And I also have, I mean, we have a thriving Nigerian community here in Berlin.

00:16:02: So that also helps.

00:16:03: We organize events, you know, meetups, yeah, fun activities.

00:16:08: So it really helps.

00:16:10: I also have a church community that is largely international.

00:16:15: Okay, so people from Nigeria, other parts of Africa, you know, other parts of Asia.

00:16:22: So it helps you just be around people who understand, you know, the uniqueness that you're carrying with you.

00:16:30: Yeah, so I do.

00:16:32: And it's also what makes it, you know, a lot more comfortable, to be honest.

00:16:37: That's

00:16:38: beautiful.

00:16:39: So tell me a little bit about the church.

00:16:42: Oh yeah, so I'm a member of the Seventy Adventist Church.

00:16:48: So here it's called Advent Gemeinde, Freiköche, Zeben Tag, Advent Gemeinde.

00:16:57: So it's an international, it's a global church actually.

00:17:03: And in almost every country we have some representation of membership.

00:17:11: So here in Berlin as well, we have quite a couple of churches, but predominantly German.

00:17:17: So the church I attend is the International Church in Charlottenburg.

00:17:22: So it's an English congregation.

00:17:24: So it draws a lot of people who are not so good at speaking German.

00:17:30: So they don't want to go to the German church.

00:17:32: So we have the international church where every international... person who's you know working here studying here you know all of those type of things.

00:17:43: they you know we congregate on saturday.

00:17:47: so you know the church also our day of worship is saturday.

00:17:51: so that's when we meet at church here

00:17:54: and it is in english right

00:17:56: in english correct.

00:17:58: that is very important to know.

00:18:00: yes

00:18:00: yes i agree.

00:18:02: and about your work what do you do here?

00:18:06: um so working product management.

00:18:08: So I work as a senior product owner with an automotive company.

00:18:14: I love them.

00:18:15: Whenever someone tells me product management because I feel it's I have no idea what product management is.

00:18:23: Yeah, that's that's that's fair.

00:18:25: So I mean, it's it's very high level, you know, just to give a summary.

00:18:31: So it's basically ensuring that users or customers, okay, the people who use things have a great experience using those things, right?

00:18:45: So in the context of the automotive world, a product manager ensures that every part of the car that you're responsible for, customers are getting maximum value from it.

00:18:59: So if you think about the infotainment in the car, so when you go in and you're able to connect Apple play you know to the car or you're able to sign in and configure your music and all of those things.

00:19:11: so that's a part of the of the whole experience of the car.

00:19:15: okay so a product manager is in charge of that part of the car.

00:19:19: so for me for example my product is in I'm responsible for the warning lights that are in a vehicle.

00:19:28: okay so when you think of everything that shows on the dashboard, that sends an alarm or a notification.

00:19:34: I

00:19:36: panic.

00:19:36: Whenever that happens, I just panic.

00:19:38: That's not true.

00:19:41: Exactly.

00:19:41: To make you not panic and to make sure that that issue is resolved as quickly as possible, I manage a product that helps facilitate that process.

00:19:52: Basically, a product might just help.

00:19:55: understand customers problem and work with those who are fixing those problems and at the end they confirm that yes the real you know the right problem has been solved or has been fixed.

00:20:05: yeah.

00:20:07: Do you think that Germany is automated?

00:20:11: Not quite, not quite at all.

00:20:13: you know.

00:20:13: I mean in some areas there's there's improvement.

00:20:20: there's improvement.

00:20:21: I remember coming here I was struggling.

00:20:24: I came with a lot of cash because I'm like, yeah, I don't know if I'll be able to use, I wasn't sure how much cash is king in this economy.

00:20:35: But yeah, in that regard, I was pleasantly surprised that I didn't have to go everywhere having to pay in cash and all of that.

00:20:44: But I mean, there are still a few places where you still need that.

00:20:47: But in that area, there's some automation.

00:20:52: But when I think about the documentation part of things so lettas.com all of those things yeah not quite

00:21:02: i hate opening my letterbox because i always know that it's gonna be a bad news.

00:21:08: yeah yeah yeah so it's always you know i had to like every year.

00:21:13: i have a process of shredding you know outdated letters for that year and then I scan the ones that are relevant, you know, store them in the drive.

00:21:21: So it's like a yearly ritual.

00:21:23: and yeah, it can be better, you know, from the organizations point of view, right?

00:21:28: So from the German side of things, you know, so you save every, every person that stress, you know.

00:21:37: Although I have to admit that some point during the AI at the beginning, at the beginning of TARGPT, A couple of people from the diplomatic world told me that it might be, it looks like we're going back to the facts, to the letters, because of the deepfake.

00:21:59: Because if you think that everything can be now deepfaked, then the only thing that actually keeps it real, it's... to write things, the old kind of way, to draw things, the old kind of way.

00:22:16: And if you realize that now, this next generation, in theory, in market researches, that we're going to go analog and things that might start to feel a little bit more chaotic and less stylish.

00:22:35: Maybe we might as well go back again into a little bit of this analog.

00:22:40: Let's write each other letters.

00:22:42: And I mean, millennials, of course I'm a millennial.

00:22:48: So

00:22:50: it is a fair argument, right?

00:22:52: But there are a ton of ways that we can make sure we don't go back there, right?

00:22:56: So I think digital certificates would help a lot.

00:23:01: There are a lot of technologies around.

00:23:03: how you can verify, validate a document.

00:23:07: So if the country invests in that direction to say, hey, you know what, every document that comes from us will find a way to put a digital verifiable sign on it that, hey, you can confirm the legitimacy of this document as it relates to things that are that important.

00:23:29: And when it's on a pair, pair to pair level, you know, you can devise a way of verification amongst yourself, right?

00:23:37: You know, with the person who's receiving the letter.

00:23:40: Yeah, I mean, for me, any, any option is better than going back to the one that was fast, right?

00:23:48: But, but yeah, with every problem that we face with technology, there's always a solution around the corner.

00:23:55: So I'm definitely positive that something would come out to, you know, combat combat the challenges with DeepFake.

00:24:01: Yeah.

00:24:02: It's going to be definitely... challenge in our way.

00:24:07: I mean, again, as a millennial, at least we have grown, I don't know if you're a millennial, but at least I am, we grew up with the analog life.

00:24:17: So maybe of course, coming to Germany and going back to the cash and you could not at the beginning, I could not log into any Wi-Fi without saying yes to everything and you know, a lot of other things.

00:24:32: So it wasn't that like weird for me.

00:24:39: It was familiar.

00:24:40: But when you think that the generation of my cousins or nephews that are twenty, twenty-five, they've never been offline for more than five days.

00:24:50: And even that, that's pushing it.

00:24:55: It's going to be interesting.

00:24:56: So before we leave you, what's your favorite thing about living in Germany?

00:25:03: it's an interesting question my favorite thing I'll see.

00:25:16: so there's somewhat there's some level of predictability right around how the how the system runs right and that's that's most times is interesting.

00:25:30: you know sometimes it's not always perfect okay but but that's that's that's a that's a good thing.

00:25:36: I you know I appreciate about Germany And when I compare it to other European countries that I've been to, yeah, it's still, it's a high point, you know, when I think of Germany.

00:25:49: Yeah, the credibility, I like the culture, I like the culture.

00:25:55: Yeah, they are, so Germans are really nice people, okay, but breaking into that, before you activate the niceness in the German, you have to earn it, right?

00:26:06: But once you earn that, you know, they're really nice, they're really nice people.

00:26:10: So I also like the culture

00:26:13: and

00:26:15: I think also the community that I've built here, built here makes it also nice to like Germany.

00:26:23: I don't know if that makes sense.

00:26:25: Yeah, I feel you.

00:26:27: Tumana, thank you so much for your time.

00:26:29: It was great to talk with you and hopefully until next time.

00:26:35: Yes, yes, thank you.

00:26:37: Great work with what you do.

00:26:39: I'm a huge fan and I look forward to it every day, actually.

00:26:43: Thank you so much.

00:26:44: Yes, you're welcome.

00:26:46: Thank you.

00:26:48: Enjoy the rest of the evening.

00:26:52: Have Germans always been so direct or did it change?

00:26:58: Was there something that started that, what I call it, a revolution or started that way of life?

00:27:06: or have you know, has it always been that way?

00:27:09: Usually that question comes right after a German has said something like this is wrong?

00:27:17: I don't agree or my personal favorite.

00:27:20: that makes no

00:27:22: sense.

00:27:23: so yes Germans are direct but have we always been like this?

00:27:31: pretty much yes

00:27:32: though

00:27:33: we prefer to think of it not as direct but as having a very practical social filter.

00:27:43: In Germany the filter doesn't ask.

00:27:46: will this hurt someone's feelings.

00:27:49: It asks is this accurate?

00:27:52: and then is this necessary?

00:27:56: Historically this comes from a culture that values structure, precision and reliability.

00:28:05: If something is wrong You say it's wrong.

00:28:08: If a train is late, you don't say it's fashion to be delayed.

00:28:13: You say it is six minutes late and this is unacceptable.

00:28:20: Of course, this style has softened over time.

00:28:24: We smile more now.

00:28:26: We even do smart talk occasionally.

00:28:29: But the core idea is still there.

00:28:33: Honestly, it's polite.

00:28:36: So... If a German tells you exactly what they think, don't panic.

00:28:42: It's not anger.

00:28:44: It's not hostility.

00:28:45: It's just our social filter doing its

00:28:49: job.

00:28:51: We don't filter out opinions.

00:28:53: We filter out confusion.

00:28:56: And honestly, once you get used to it, it's quite refreshing.

00:29:02: Thank you people, and that's it for this week's episode of plus point nine.

00:29:08: If you'd like a simple, friendly update on what's happening in Germany every morning, subscribe to our Morning Espresso at plus-forty-nine-dot-de.

00:29:19: It's free and lands straight in your inbox.

00:29:22: You can follow us on Instagram at plus-underline-forty-nine, and you have questions, sorry, ideas or tips.

00:29:29: Send us an email at info at plus-forty-nine-dot-de.

00:29:34: I'm Andrea.

00:29:35: Enjoy the chaos.

00:29:36: if carnival is your thing.

00:29:38: Stay curious and if it's not, we'll see you still next week on plus forty nine.

00:29:47: Thanks for listening.